Thursday, June 7

The DiCarlo Escalation Ladder

So, there are these things called Pick Up Artists. There are... a lot of them. And basically their goal is to sleep with women, and being fairly bad at that to begin with, they developed a philosophy and community around (incredibly icky and manipulative) strategies to do so. They market themselves, most of the time, as teaching simple social skills. And while it might look that way (sometimes... very rarely, really) from the outside, the motivation behind what they're doing is... just gross. Really horrible, to the point where I wouldn't even call is misogyny (I mean, it is, but it's beyond that). They view, talk about, and treat women as objects to conquer, as video-games which, if you hit all the right buttons, can be manipulated into sex.

It's not just that they're misogynyst, but on some level, they seem... misantrhopist. Like, almost psociopathic in their language. There's no empathy, there's a distinct lack of consideration for other people. And why would there be? Women aren't people. I think that's what's scary: the extent to which these communities talk about women as non-people.

And that's no hyberole. When I talk about video games, I'm drawing from actual literature from these communities. Like, for instance, "cheat codes." Yup, there are cheat codes. For, you know, relating to other people.

Anyway, before I get really incensed about this (because I have lots of female feelings, beep boop), I'd like to offer a prime example of PUA philosophy. It's one of their most posted and linked pieces, written by Vin DiCarlo (a particularly popular, almost worshipped PUA). It's called the DiCarlo Escalation Ladder, and when I first read it, I was so appalled that I couldn't do much else but mock it. Argument was gone, debate was gone, feminist critique was gone. I just laughed, for a long time.

For your reading pleasure, I include said mockery below. It's sort of long, but I think, totally worth it. Without Further Ado!


The Dicarlo Escalation Ladder


1. Eye Contact and Initial Conversation 


Eye contact is the first step. It’s use shows social awareness and always improves your chances of starting a conversation. Start your conversational game shortly after eye contact. 

Or it shows that you’re, you know, a person, with eyes.

2. Incidental Class 1
 

The first class of incidental kino involves the arms and hands. Shaking hands, tapping people on the shoulder and brushing arms are all very common things that we do on a daily basis. Done in an incidental manner, ie. occurring merely by chance or without intention or calculation, it is extremely effective at building initial comfort.
 

Incidental Class 1 Examples:
 

* Hand shaking
 
* Arm brushing
 
* Light touching on her arm to emphasize your points
 
* Anchoring her arm near elbow to hold her close as you talk
 
* Standing next to her with your arm touching hers
 
* High Fives
 
* Palm Reading
 

Okay, so “kino” stands for “kinesthetic approach.” It means touching people. But because women are video games, touching them has it’s own lingo, and a clear hierarchy within that lingo.

Also, palm reading?

3. Overt Class 1
 

There is an unmistakable recurring pattern throughout the DEL: incidental kino, followed by overt kino. Overt means open to view or knowledge; not concealed or secret. While incidental kino is usually done in a context which masks your intention, overt kino is not. The incidental kino which precedes it creates the familiarity necessary for the overt kino to be accepted.
 

This is the start of the super-creepy manipulation. Instead of human contact being about, oh, I don’t know, how nice it is to touch somebody, it becomes about tricking or manipulating women by breaking down their physical boudnaries.
Also, note the accruing acronyms and/or slang: DEL, kino. Have you found Princess Peach yet? No, not enough Kino. Try again at the next castle.

Overt Class 1 Examples:
 

* Holding hands
 
* Arm in arm escorting
 

4. Incidental Class 2
 

Class 2 kino involves any contact which takes place on her torso or legs. This is slightly more intimate than class 1, but does not include erogenous zones such as her breasts, crotch or inner thighs. Those areas are not paid any direct attention until the escalation ramp - to be defined later.

I don’t think I’ve used the word “crotch” since I was like eleven. But okay. 

Incidental Class 2 Examples:
 

* Standing very close with your legs touching hers
 
* Sitting close together with your legs touching hers
 
* Lightly and incidentally brushing her abdomen with your hands while talking
 

I’m trying to imagine this one. Like “oh, great joke, haha!” and then he… what, swivels and taps her belly and then looks away like nothing happened?

* Briefly touching her back with your palm while speaking as if you are pulling her in to hear you better
 

5. Overt Class 2
 

Overt class 2 kino is usually done while sitting down. It’s not necessary, but definitely a smart place to make the transition to sitting down.

This is the kind of sentence that takes it from just weird, to super-creepy technical. Like, you can’t just sit down. You have to “make the transition to sitting down.” As if I’d excuse myself from the table and say “Excuse me, I need to make the transition to urinating now.”

This class of kino should be done in a protective, almost romantic manner.

Because god forbid you might be actually romantic. 

Overt Class 2 Examples: 

* Frontal Hugging (done best as a positive reaction to her compliance)

As opposed to… backtal hugging?
 
* Escorting her through the bar with your hand on her lower back
 
* Sitting next to her and placing her leg over yours
 
* Holding her abdomen on the side while sitting down and talking
 

Again, the language is remarkable. Because women aren’t people, we don’t have “tummies” or “bellies,” or even “torsos.” We, like arachnids and insects, have “abdomens.”

(I might have just imagined a giant woman-spider devouring PUAs with her spectacular abdomen. It was pretty sweet).

* Placing her hand on your thigh
 

6. Incidental Class 3
 

Her hair, face and neck are the regions included in class 3. Many guys make the common mistake of touching these areas too soon, with a girl they first met. Girls are surprisingly protective of their hair, face and neck placing these relatively high on the ladder.

Surprisingly protective, yes. And who would of thunk it, because, ya know, IT’S MY FACE.
Jesus.

 Another common mistake is that more experienced guys will generally skip this step altogether, only to face last minute resistance later on. 

Incidental Class 3 Examples:
 

* Brushing (or pretending to brush) something off of her face
 
* Talking very closely with your face touching hers because the environment is extremely loud
 
* Touching an interesting necklace she’s wearing, meanwhile allowing your fingers to lightly caress her neck
 
* Playfully pinching her cheeks
 

Yeah, this is not sexy. Not even creepy sexy. This is my grandmother.

7. Overt Class 3
 

The manner in which kino is delivered in overt class 3, is very direct. It is meant to prepare her for kissing,

As one would prepare a fine meat to be marinated, or a delicate soufflé.

 and is done in a very slow, gentle and romantic way.

Ah, okay, so now we can be romantic.

Most of the time you should be sitting down, relaxed and maintaining a good sexual state and strong eye contact. 

How, exactly, does one maintain a good sexual state? I’m imagine the outline of Delaware dressed up in burlesque clothing.

Overt Class 3 Examples:
 

* Placing her head to rest on your shoulder
 
* Moving your face into her neck and smelling her
 
* Lightly stroking her face with your finger, close in, looking into her eyes 
* Running your fingers through her hair, close in, looking into her eyes
 
* Holding her behind the neck with your palm to the side of her neck, looking into her eyes
 

When I picture any of these things, it sort of reminds me of the re-make Charlie's Angel's villain, the one who cuts off locks of their hair and then sort of... rubs them on his face. Also, smelling? Are we monkeys now? Don't get me wrong, I like the way my partner smells, and I tell him so, but it's the sort of thing I imagine happening in a more romantic way.

Oh right. I forgot. We've leveled up to "Romantic" now.
Escalation Ramp 

So, I'm going to mock this part, just like the rest, but I'd like it known that, in the mocking, I am fully aware of how rapey this thing is. Like, legitimately, actual nausea-inducing rape-esque advice. Okay. Disclaimer disclaimed.

While the above steps from 1-7 may take anywhere from 30 minutes to 10 hours, the escalation ramp is very rapid. The duration of the ramp should be about 10 - 30 minutes. Start the ramp very quickly once you have complete isolation in a sex location.

This is one my favorites! A Bonified Sex Location! Oh man! What could that possibly be? I bet we'll find out... 

8. Kissing
 

Start kissing from a very close proximity. Don’t come diving in lips first from three feet away. Ideally you should already be in a suitable position for kissing before you try. If you have overt class 3 kino taken care of, you’re probably in the right spot.

But am I in a Sex Location? Guys guys guys guys guys. Guys! 

A technique for building sexual tension - move closely in, slowly as if you might kiss her, and then move away and start talking about something else. This will build the tension and she will wonder when you’re going to actually kiss her.

Right. Or it'll make you look like a schizophrenic lunatic. Either way... 

A technique to initiate kissing - try placing your finger just underneath her chin and pulling her mouth towards yours.

I imagine a man sort of hooking his fingers into my mouth, and under my chin, and yanking my face around. I think it's the use of the verb "pulling." Which, don't get me wrong, could be hot in some circumstances. But I'm not sure it's what DiCarlo was going for. 

Kissing should be light and short at first. You should be the one to pull away first. Don’t use too much tounge at first, just use it to tease her, and build anticipation.

Like the Great Mina Bird, you shall peck and peck and peck again! (think: ostrich-esque). 

9. Kissing Her Neck
 

Once you have kissed her for a bit, move down to her neck. Kiss it gently, while holding her close to you. Depending on how rough you want to set the mood, feel free to throw in some gentle biting too.

Gentle biting. Oh ostrich, Oh Great Mina Bird, what exemplars are ye! (and again, this could be hot, but again, not what he was going for, I don't think).

10. Touching the Bare Skin of Her Back
 

Once you have established kissing both on her mouth and neck,

Much like "transitioning," we can't simply "kiss." We must "establish kissing."

 move your hands to her waist and underneath her shirt. Continue to hold her close to you, now with your hands directly on her back. 

11. Stomach to Stomach
 

Now that you have established touching her skin, below her shirt, simply move your hand to the front, and lift her shirt, exposing only her stomach. At the same time lift your shirt as well so that your abdomen is in direct contact with hers.
 

It seems innocent, but will meanwhile trigger intense sexual feelings inside of her.

The feelings! Oh god, the feelings! They're... they're inside of me! (like the first victim in Alien, sitting around the table, claws erupting from his insides... how's that for stomach to stomach?)

 The only time she feels contact like that is usually when she’s naked and having sex.

Or cuddling? Or spooning? Also, it's not like you're getting away with something that's somehow non-sexual... bellies can be sexual too. Oh, sorry. Not bellies, abdomens.

12. Kissing her Body 

Having her shirt pulled up affords the opportunity of moving downwards to kiss and caress the bare flesh of her abdomen. Start kissing her there, along the sides, and move upwards.

Touching and kissing the breasts is optional. It is not necessary, and in some cases can be detrimental to your progress. There are some women who have a negative anchor to their breasts.

So, first off, this is a primo example of creep factor. Nothing, not a single thing they do, is about anybody else being a human. Why do people touch breasts? BECAUSE THEY WANT TO. And even if they didn't, I dunno, maybe because GIRLS LIKE IT SOMETIMES WHEN THAT HAPPENS. It's amazing that they're classified as "an erogenous zone," and that now, touching them has absolutely nothing to do with that.

Also, yeah, those damn negative anchors. I know how that is. I got mine from a cruise ship. They're blue. I tuck 'em up under if I'm wearing a tight shirt, but otherwise, they just sort of dangle there.

Inch toward their breasts and feel her reaction.

Like a worm. Or a feral cat! You inch that inching.

If she becomes increasingly turned on, then go for it. If she starts to close down, skip the breasts until you are already having sex. 

13. Incidentally Stimulate Vagina
 

While you are kissing her body, you can position yourself between her legs and use your midsection to rub against her vagina.

I'm not sure that word means what you think it means.

 If you are kissing her mouth you can position your thigh to stimulate her vagina.

Yeah, okay, so I don't think you know what a vagina is. Because if there's a way that, even with my full knowledge and compliance, somebody can use their thigh to stimulate it, I'm not sure I'd survive.

The world you're looking for here is vulva. Say it with me now: vul-va! Very good.

You can also be kissing her body and reach between her legs and plant your hand on the bed below her. Then use your forearm to stimulate her vagina.

So, even though this one is technically possible, you're going to need a lot more prep and a lot more lube.

The key here is that because you aren’t using your hand or fingers, she has no basis for objection.

Like I said, it gets pretty rapey. 

14. Direct Vaginal Stimulation from Behind (Inside Panties) 

Once you have really amped her up by incidentally rubbing her vagina,
 move your hand around to the back and slip it inside her panties and touch her naked ass.

Not just her ass! Her neked ass! Sonvabitch pile-amonkey nuts! 

Next, move your hand all the way down and reach her vagina. Start first by touching the area around it.

VUL-VA. VULVA. Or maybe CLI-TO-RIS.

 Then proceed to finger her from behind. Women never expect to have it happen this way. Trying to reach your hand down the front of her pants will often be resisted, but from the rear is unexpected and effective.

"Many women are overly protective of their... front bodies. Try the rear." Except that that's still my butt. And I'd appreciate if you a) ask first, and b) we talk a little but about it before you do anything "from the rear."

If she is wearing a skirt or dress, you will instead move your hand up the back of her leg, and reach her vagina that way. Finger her and then proceed directly to step 16.

Choose Your Own Rapist Adventure! Proceed directly to jail!

15. Direct Vaginal Stimulation in Front
 

Get her heated up

Like Ramen! Or... a crack pipe?

 by fingering her, and then when once she is sufficiently turned on, undo the front of her pants with your other hand. 

You can use the Situationally Relevant phrase “My hand is being crushed” as you do it, although it’s usually not necessary.

Situationally Relevant! Kino! DEL! Now we've got capital-letter classifications, acronyms, and abbreviations. We're getting pretty oficial with our rape here, dudes.

 Since she is engaged by the fact that you are fingering her, she will rarely object to your simultaneous undoing of her pants. You may also have her undo her pants, by saying “Unbutton your pants.” as you are fingering her.

Just a quick grammatical point: that's not actually you undoing her pants. That's her undoing her pants. Despite the later reference to "Jedi mind tricks," (not kidding, it's there), you can't actually use the force. Also, didn't your mama ever teach you to say "please," while you're skeezing on a girl? Je-SUS. 

Moving to the front, you’ll be able to get more penetration with your fingers, and get her to the point where she is practically begging for sex. Use a firm “come-hither” motion pulling forward on the front vaginal wall and stimulating her g-spot.

If I ever get the chance to fight a PUA guy, I'm going to use a "come-hither" motion to gauge out his eyeballs. But not on the first rung of the ladder. Because men are surprisingly protective of their face and hair. 

16. Remove Her Pants, Sex

Ya know, like ya do. 

The idea is to get her so heated up by fingering her, that she makes a commitment to sex, verbally or physically.

Once again, this is all about avoidiung rejection, and manipulating women around the PUAs fragule, fragile ego. Don't touch her because it might feel nice, or because you might want to, or even because it's foreplay, which is sort of a nice warmup for sex. Even the phrace "make sure you touch her enough so she's ready for sex," or "some women get really turned on by manual stimulation, and sometimes, they're up for sex after that!" would be better. But this isn't about what she wants; it's not even really about what he wants. It's about sex with no vulnerability, and no empathy. It's not about consent, but "commitment," because after commitment, there's no going back.

There are a few ways to go about this. Firstly, it is very important that you don’t stop fingering her before her pants are off. Too many times a guy will stop fingering her, and then try to take off her pants, only to get more resistance.
 

While fingering her you can say “Do you want me inside you?” Which will usually get a “Yes.” response
.

Like the feelings! Oh man, feelings, thighs, forearms, entire men! It's a party!

 At that point you say “Ok, take off your pants.” and continue to finger her until her panties are off, and she’s ready to go.

Like our marinating meat, stick it in!

But really, this part gets too rape culture to even make fun of very much. It's just scary. 

Another option is to skip the question and directly tell her to take off her pants. Usually with your fingers busy at work, she will be more than compliant.

Compliant is what you do with the police. Compliant is what you do while being arrested. Compliant is what you do when you don't really want to do something, but you're doing it anyway.

Also, women are like cats: distract them with a shiny thing, and they won't notice that you're taking off their pants. Wait, what?
Another technique is to ask her “Do you want me to get a condom?” In 90% of all girls you ask this, they will say “Yes.” Not because they are saying they want sex, but because they want to appear safe and level headed. You will interpret this as the permission to get a condom and have sex with her, and it will most likely be met without opposition.

It's incredible. They actually outright admit that she's not giving consent, but go ahead anyway. It's spelled out, right there, not only what she means (and how you should ignore it), but the rape-culture, anti-feminist argument you can use after the fact, if she has any problems.

"Well, your honor, I was being safe, and when she said 'yes' to me getting a condom, I assumed that was her saying 'yes' to sex."

Beware, PUAs. Beware my iminent come-hither motion.

*** 

So, that's the escalation ladder. Below are some more helpful tips, in case you have further questions.

Additional Points 
1. Higher Levels Unlock Access to Lower Levels

Ladies and gentlemen, we're now completely immersed in video game land.

The rungs of the DiCarlo Escalation Ladder may be treated exactly the same as compliance levels. The point is, any time you reach a higher level through situational relevance, it unlocks the lower levels automatically.

Wait, situational relevance? I don't know what that is!? Did I miss that step? Do I have to go back a level? Oh crap... 

A good example of this is in a loud club or bar, you can reach in and talk directly into her ear, getting incidental class 3 kino, touching the side of your face to hers. You are speaking to her in a way that is dictated by the situation, so it is accepted. If you accomplish this without her resistance, all lower levels will become unlocked.

You thought I was kidding when I said women were video games, right? Nope. We're unlocking levels and getting gold stars and everything. These gold stars might be illusive, I know, but they're probably somewhere near our vaginas. You can find them with your thigh.

2. Execution of the Escalation Ramp
 

The escalation ramp, which consists of steps 8-16 is most effectively executed in isolation in a sex location. 

OH YESSSSS. Finally!

It is not efficient to start the ramp with the intention of finishing it at a later time. Starting the ramp without finishing it will lead to an increase in flaking and decrease a woman’s attraction toward you.

Flaking? Like, my skin? Is this some kind of Prince-of-Perisa curse bullshit? 

This is because these sexual behaviors were formed thousands of years ago when we were still living in caves. The natural instintual urges,

I think the word you're looking for there is "instinctual." Also, really, evo psyche? My cave woman-self woulda kicked your fucking ass.

Also, I'm still not clear on what an okay Sex Location is. Help!

 combined with a lack of knowledge of modern-day sexual consequences

Like, I don't know, laws and/or consent? Meh, just, you know, sexual consequences.

It might actually be a revelation to these people that sometimes, maybe sometimes, people actually want to have sex and then have it.

 meant that escalation with a woman would 100% of the time lead to sex. 

By executing the ladder correctly, you are matching her genetic sexual programming and giving it to her the exact way that she wants it.
 

Oh yeah baby, gimme that forearm in my vagina. That's just how I want it. Uh.
It is acceptable to do the first part of the ramp - kissing - outside of a suitable sex location,

YES OKAY BUT WHERE IS IT. WHERE IS A SUITABLE SEX LOCATION. IF I DON'T KNOW THEN I'LL NEVER SAVE PRINCESS PEACH FROM THE CASTLE wait what?

 but only if you plan on completing the ramp later in that same meeting. It’s not to say that kissing a girl on a non-sex meet 

What, like a swim meet?

will destroy your chances, but it certainly won’t improve them. Kiss-closes may look impressive and feed your ego, but aren’t technically optimum.

Ah, now I understand. As opposed to non-technically optimum. Gotcha.

3. Incidental Vs. Overt Kino 

There is always a question as to how to execute these different pieces of kino. In general, you should spend most of your time in the incidental phase, getting her comfortable with contact in those regions.

Like Risk! Hunker down your troops in the right regions! Preferably Australia! 

This pattern of incidental followed by overt is almost like a Jedi mind trick.

There is nothing to say. I think I have nothing to say here. I think... I think... oh god.

Use the incidental kino in a very non-invasive, very much under the radar manner, and her subconscious will automatically accept the subsequent overt kino.

"These are not the vaginas you're looking for..." 

Since she accepts the overt kino, it is through a process of backwards rationalization that her attraction for you increases. The key is to make the overt kino extremely short. Each overt phase in the initial ladder should have a duration of 5-10 seconds. You’re not going to be holding her hand in the club for 5 minutes at a time while in class 1. Keep it short and sweet.

And make sure you've got your stopwatch handy.

4. Group Ladder Theory
 

There is quite a bit of evidence supporting the idea of a “group ladder” concept. Within a tightly knit group of girls who share a “collective emotional state” with each other, it is possible that whatever step on the ladder you achieve with one girl can transfer over very easily to the other girls in the group.

Because all women are interchangable. Like orca whales. Or any of the new Star Wars movies (hey, look, a joke they might actually get!)

(Really, I love Star Wars. A lot. Sorry Han). 

In a sense, each group of girls has a ladder, which represents your escalation with that group. If you can comfortably touch and hold a girl at a certain point in the ladder, it creates an implicit trust of “this guy is cool” for the other girls in the group at that same level. Keep in mind, however, this does not include the escalation ramp, although it has been observed to happen with kissing quite readily.

Does this really need to be stated? I mean, aside from the fact that the intial claim of interchangibility is totally ludicrous, do you really need to tell these guys that you can't just switch from having sex with one woman to having sex with another? I think, maybe, one or the other would notice. Oy. 

5. DiCarlo Escalation Ladder as a Standalone Method
 

The DEL provides both a sufficient framework for escalation and a linear step-by-step process such that it could be used as a standalone method. You can use one of the many popular verbal structures out there, but basic conversational skills will suffice, given an elementary understanding of the ladder.

I'm not sure you guys have basic conversational skills. But go ahead. 

There is an inherent value and attractiveness to a man who can escalate in such an intelligent and socially aware manner, which is why your verbal content does not matter very much when using this method.

Oh? Is there now? You know, I think you might actually have something here, DiCarlo... I think it's in the price his eyeballs will fetch me on the black market. Or maybe I'll sell of his thighs as sex toys. Who knows.


So, that's the Escalation Ladder. I had something quippy to finish up with, but it took about all my energy not to throw the computer to the ground, and maintain a humorous attitude, while writing that stuff.

It's just... how are there humans like this? How is there violence like this? How are these people not IN JAIL, or at least MORALLY SHUNNED? I don't know... I just, I don't fucking know.

To leave you with somewhat of a pick me up, here's an XKCD on the subject (note: negging is also a PUA technique, in which you use an underhanded compliment to pick up a girl, bringing her down a peg in self esteem with the hopes that she might go home with a loser like you. Example: "Oh, that salad looks delicious. Are you on a diet?"

Anyway. I'm too mad now. But I hope that was funny. And I hope you never, ever have to meet one of these people. And if you do, remember: come-hither motion, go straight for the eyes.

10 comments:

  1. I thoroughly enjoyed this. What I thought was interesting though, was the fact that they never gave tips for what to do if the woman says no, slow down, or stop at any point in the ladder. Perhaps that would have made it a little more rapey than it already is...but it also makes them look so disgustingly confident in their abilities to play women that they just cannot conceive a woman ever saying no after level 1, 2, and 3 kino plus neck kissing have been achieved! Gross.

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    1. I think that's what they mean by "meet resistance." There's plenty of PUA stuff to look up on it, but wouldn't deign them the internet hits.

      Delete
  2. Flirting is a game, women want men that know what they're doing, women want sex too but wants to be comfortable with it.
    Men will allways have to push for a bit while still making it comfortable for her. This book describes how to give her good sex, turn her on and make her want it another time because you left her a good impression that you actually deserved because you where doing your best to make her feel comfortable and also get a bit out of her comfort zone every time which she needs to even get horny or anywhere near there.
    Rape is sexually assaulting someone while you see and/or hear she doesn't want it. Understanding how she works and responding to that is not though. It is in fact exactly what women want, to be understood not only in verbal sense but in sex or the escalation to it too.
    Because no woman is waiting for a guy who invites her for coffee only to sit on the sideline and never escalate or kiss because it would be rape to do so.
    You want men to understand you, turn you on, touch you in the right places. I understand that you have a hard time reading Vin's book but I think that's more because it's like a guy saying what he is gonna do with you every step of the way right in your face. That automatically sounds rapey and obviously very predictable. While if he would just do it without saying what he's gonna do all the way it suddenly can actually be a very nice experience.
    It's like when woman thinks "I like that guy he's sexy" and when she walks past another guy she thinks "He's hot too" while fantasizing a bit about it.
    This is actually pretty normal, everyone has walked past someone or a few someones while sexually fantasizing about it.
    But imagine that this same woman would write the two sentences she thought of plus her sexual fantasies in a book. There would be a whole load of people calling her slut or sexist, just like Vin is now a rapist.
    While he just makes a programm about the combination of your personality and the knowledge of what she wants to get her attracted to you. (This is not a persona it just allows you to be yourself and talk to her while having the knowledge when to react on her signs (even though she doesn't realize half of the signs she is giving)). This actually prevents discomfort and traumatic experience because if a guy wouldn't recognize these signs he might just go for it at a wrong moment automatically creating discomfort, able to give a traumatic experience and if the guy gets frustrated it can even escalate to rape.

    I'm not trying to bring your article down. I'm just trying to make you see that everything sounds worse when written down even when it's something everyone thinks about once in a while.

    Liked your jokes btw ^^

    Well best wishes!
    Joël T.

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    Replies
    1. I'm going to set aside, entirely, the massive problems I have with this approach relating consent, rape culture, and the perpetuation of patriarchy's basest expressions and point out, as seems to be my want of late, that I feel bad for the dudes and bros who actually buy into this advice.

      It is, simply put, cripplingly shitty advice. What women want varies widely (thank your lucky stars) but I've never dated a woman, or known a person, who actually valued someone's seductive techniques higher than the the authenticity, creativity and curiosity. Handing a young, impressionable, inexperienced lad a script and saying "follow this checklist and you'll get laid and the recipient of your laying will probably think about letting you do sex to them again" is setting these men up to have a sequence of minimally-mutually satisfying encounters ending in frustration.

      Instead, DiCarlo or his ilk could devote their work to giving these men tools for honesty, open communication, experimentation, and skills development. He could be teaching these hungry men to fish, but instead he's teaching them to scam fishmongers out of their wares, which is a colossal waste and a moral failure. Sadly, it's also a commercial success because patriarchy.

      Eff that noise, boys.

      Delete
  3. "women want men that know what they're doing, women want sex too but wants to be comfortable with it. Men will allways have to push for a bit while still making it comfortable for her."

    Yup. Because what's between our legs determines how we think and act. So, just right there, dude, gender binary, let that stuff go. There are no ingrained characteristics or roles, and there are no generalities that apply like you've just applied them. These are social constructs.

    "This book describes how to give her good sex, turn her on and make her want it another time because you left her a good impression that you actually deserved because you where doing your best to make her feel comfortable and also get a bit out of her comfort zone every time which she needs to even get horny or anywhere near there."

    No book can describe how to "give good sex." That's what talking to your partner is for. Every body is different, and bodies are different at different times, days, etc. It's not your place to "make her want it," and even that language is coercive and... well, and almost equation-like. As if you were to put enough coins into the slot, sex pops out. Which is pretty disgusting.

    IT IS NOT YOUR JOB TO GET HER OUT OF HER COMFORT ZONE. Pushing past where someone is comfortable? Where someone does not explicitly consent to what's going on? That's a really fucking shitty thing to do to someone is what that is.

    And no, it's not just outlining what he's going to do, and it's not just "interpreting her signs." There are no signs! And even if there were, what does it hurt to ask, to make sure? What does it hurt to say "hey, does this feel good to you?"

    Seriously. If this isn't a text about how to rape someone, basically, I want you to answer me that question. Why all the crap about "moving past resistance"? If the person you're fooling around with wants what is happening to happen, WHY IS THIS ENTIRE THING ABOUT GETTING AROUND THE FACT THAT THEY DON'T. Why not just ask?

    I'm not freaked out about the book (and I didn't read the whole thing) because the author talks about what he's going to do to women. I *like* it when partners tell me what they're going to do (that's a way I play, sometimes). I'm freaked out about his book because it's a manual for coercive sex, it's sex negative, gender normative, and downright rapey. And what scares me really? Is that guys will defend it. Guys will read it and try to "use" it and defend it. Guys like you, in places like this.

    So, you can "try to get me to see" all you want, but as far as I'm concerned, the things that are disgusting about this have nothing to do with their medium, and everything to do with their content.

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    1. Some women resist sex they actually want because they're afraid of slut shaming etc. The point is to make them comfortable enough with you that they stop worrying about that.

      And for guys who are fine with taking to girls but haven't done a lot of physical stuff before, the 'escalation order' outlined here is actually pretty accurate to what happens with most couples, and helps them avoid awkward mistakes that'll make the girl uncomfortable.

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    2. You have no idea why someone is resisting something unless you ask, and so I'll ask the same question I've asked before: why take the risk? Because let's be perfectly clear about it: YOU ARE RISKING SEXUALLY ASSAULTING SOMEONE. Talk about it. Be sure of consent. There is no excuse for this. None.

      To your second point: I'll agree, actually, in part. It probably is what happens in a lot of couples; it's the dominant sexual narrative of our culture. A culture that's violent, patriarchal, and hurtful to all kinds of people in all kinds of ways. Just because something "usually happens," doesn't mean it's justifiable.

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  4. Hmm I don't see anywhere that says consent is optional. A woman may not "commit" to sex not because she doesn't want to have sex but because she isn't turned on enough. In the former case, the woman rejects the notion of having sex from the start, while in the latter case the woman considers sex, but she is not properly aroused. Just because someone is attracted to you and even fantasizes about having sex with you, it doesn't mean that its ok to grab someone's crotch after you greet each other. If anything this "ladder" just is a guide to tell you what is socially acceptable given certain circumstances. If anything this can prevent sexual assault because it may prevent a guy from touching a woman in an inappropriate place before establishing comfort and social connection. This is something that the girl who grabbed my ass with both her hands the other night should have considered. I couldn't complain since I am a guy after all. My personal safety wasn't in jeopardy so I didn't protest.

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    1. The issue lies, it looks like, in what you see as the definition of sexual assault. Sexual assault can occur even when "touching after establishing comfort and social connection." Sexual assault is one thing: sexual contact without expressed, freely given consent. And that's what's described in this stupid fucking ladder.

      The ladder talks about what to do when "meeting resistance," the ladder talks about how manipulate women when they don't want things, and what to *even if consent is questioned and/or unclear.* It literally (quoted above) talks about alternate "routes" to take, because were you to touch her another way, the woman in question might resist. It's all, ALL, about steps to avoid an explicit conversation about consent. And why would you ever want to do that? Because you suspect it might not be given.

      And that, my friend, is sexual assault.

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    2. And bummer about your butt. Sure, your safety wasn't in jeopardy, but still: if someone is touching you without you consent, regardless of gender, that sucks. Maybe next time, you might consider saying something? Especially because you are in a place of power? I'm trying to say this without a "you should have," because unwanted contact isn't your fault, but my wish would be that you could fee comfortable enough to say something like "hey, I didn't like that much. Could you ask if you want to touch me?"

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